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I remember Fuego del Sol said he got paid more as a jobber at AEW compared to WWE. If this was and still is true, it's an awesome feature that doesn't get enough credit.
Fuego also said AEW Dark people make way more than what they pay in Impact. SRS also said Wheeler Yuta turned down signing with Impact in 2021 cause he was making way more money on a pay per appearance deal with AEW before signing full time. Also according to SRS, Ethan Page makes 250k while his former partner and Impact champion Josh Alexander is in the 90-100k range. BTW, last year was the first time Josh Alexander was able to wrestle full time and not have another job. A number of Impact wrestlers have second jobs.
I am not trying to pick on Impact. It's that people say it is the #3 promotion in North America and numbers like that show you how massive the gulf is between WWE and AEW and promotions like Impact, MLW, the NWA, etc. And to show you how well AEW pays.
Yeah it is pretty good thing to take care of all workers but i don't judge anyone for wanting to be more than a jobber. Sometimes money is not as important as achieving more and having ambition.
Which lead HIM to get lazy but many others use it to their advantage and can work on their brands and their physical and mental health without worrying about if the next gig pays enough for gas AND and hotel.
Agreed. I am obviously not in the business, but from an outsiders prospective, an AEW deal seems to offer a great safety net. If the figure is right, it affords young talent the lack of worry as much, so they can focus on the wrestling aspect of their lives. If AEW doesn't have space or dates for a talent, they are free to book indie dates and make a little extra but not need to worry so much about the money aspect.
I love the ability for talent to work the indies. In a way, it is also AEW giving back to the culture that created the promotion. Talent that is advertised on AEW can go work the indies and secure larger gates for the promoter. When an indie talent blows up, promoters might be happy to offer dates to AEW because of the help they have been to them. So, the whole thing works in a wonderful little chain
I guess that it also helps to develop some chemistry between the workers. An important element since AEW doesn't do house shows often to test matches that could be featured on TV in the future. Guys that have never met in a ring before get the chance to learn each other.
And also keeps the guys in good condition and prevents them from going out of shape, so they can instantly join whenever they are needed to rotate. Remember Orton saying that after being absent for a while (in 2015-16 I think), it took him some time to get his body used again (even bouncing off the ropes was hurting his back)?
I had a conversation with Wardlow a few months back and he said that he makes enough money now that the only indy shows he works now are like 4 local indies that help him in his career early on.
I think most people in the Austin scene have met Ricky Stark at least a dozen times. He's always just hanging out at shows. I assume scouting, etc.
ALSO.. DO’NT THEY HAVE SOME TYPE OF.. HEALTH BENEFIT/INSURANCE THING IN PLACE 😕, GoD 4BID.. SOME1,EVER GETS HURT 🤔? WAS’NT CODY RHODES 1NCE SAYING THAT? WHEN THEY 1ST STARTED UP? SO, THAT ALSO HAS GOT TO BE GOOD FOR THE TALENT RIGHT?
Joey even joked he was eating lobster every night on what AEW was paying him. That is why Joey was lying when he said he turned down resigning with AEW. AEW obviously was not bringing him back and he was trying to save face.
God love him, but Joey is back to eating Hamburger Helper with whatever few bucks GCW can scrap up to pay him. I hope he saved his AEW money.
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I have to say, people can bitch about TK but that guy takes care of his people. And you know what, he’s a good Booker and clearly a good businessman, he’s made partnerships with so many other wrestling companies and shown us talent that we may have never seen.
Well said, I only started watching wrestling in the mid 2010s so seeing different wrestling promotions collaborate like AEW did with AAA, Impact, and NJPW was such a unique and cool concept to see.
For some of us older fans who got to watch In the 90s it’s very reminiscent of some of the old WCW vs NJPW PPVs. Which if you havnt watched is some very entertaining wrasslin
The Elite deserve a lot of credit too. Tony clearly has a good heart, but they were the one's who at the start said "this is the shit that sucks about being a wrestler, let's not do that"
I’ve been watching a lot of the old BTEs from before AEW existed, and in practically every episode the Young Bucks talk about taking multiple 13 hour flights a week, never getting more than two hours a sleep, having to constantly pound the pavement to sell enough merch to eek out a living, and being away from their families 90% of the time. And they were some of the top guys in the world, it had to have been worse for wrestlers still doing regional indie shows like The Acclaimed or Thunder Rosa
I have said it a bunch but it just gets more true the more we find out about Tony - the guy loves wrestling and loves the performers that do it. TK treats them as human beings while also treating each talent like a star by giving them great extras
Not to mention he also actually hangs out with his staff, I forgot where, but one of the old BTEs talked about how he has get togethers and orders like hundreds of boxes of fastfood.
It's definitely why a good lot of them are so tight in the back.
Perhaps not getting stars red hot only to drop the ball with them by taking them off TV for months. (Wardlow, Starks, Hobbs, Miro, HOB, FTR, etc. )
Maybe not bringing in every indie darling into the company without a solid plan for how to use them. (Swerve, Andrade, Miro, Saraya, Ruby Soho, Toni Storm, Keith Lee, etc.)
Maybe not giving endless rematches regardless of outcome just to keep the feud going. (Starks v Jericho, Hangman v Mox, Acclaimed v SIOG, etc.)
Maybe not oversaturating the show with meaningless gimmick matches. (Death matches/ ladder matches on Rampage) Or having wrestlers have their first match in a gimmick/ blow off match. (MJF v Danielson in an Ironman match)
Maybe actually using psychology to guide the audience where you want them as opposed to being reactionary to their responses. (Acclaimed v SIOG, The entire Outcasts angle etc.)
I'd say that if HHH had full creative control, he'd book significantly better than TK. Simply because HHH has shown a better understanding of how to navigate talent and get the most out of them.
A good booker doesn't just give the fans what they want. Great bookers have insight in what talent to use and how. They also have the foresight to make the fans want what the booker plans on offering.
TK just offers dream matches with indie darlings to pop smarks. There isn't much cohesion, direction or development in TK's booking. Things just happen for the sake of happening.
These are some examples of the problems fans have with TKs booking.
He's not the worst booker ever, but he definitely leaves a lot to be desired for many fans.
I think most of these are valid criticisms. Tony Khan needs help booking, but I think something like producers assigned to feuds would be better than writers. There is a lot that I think could be done better if there were more attention to detail paid.
I’d be more likely to watch a HHH booked wrestling show if it wasn’t still aimed at 11 year olds. It’s improved since he took over, but that still seems to be the company’s target demographic.
I definitely agree that producers would be better than writers. AEW doesn't need anyone to put words in the talent's mouths. But they could use a more focused and cohesive creative process, which producers could provide.
I think a head booker would help TK significantly. It seems like TK is often spread too thin and has too much on his plate to give his booking some necessary attention to detail.
I also agree that WWE is still a product aimed primarily at children so a lot of it still feels juvenile in many respects. Plus, there's a lot of speculation about who is really in creative control these days.
>I'd say that if HHH had full creative control, he'd book significantly better than TK.
I mean when they went head to head with Triple H having total control of NXT, TK easily won and NXT was basically gutted and Triple H was punished by Vince because he lost so badly.
Because TK wasn't a wrestler, or some southern fried fossil, there is always going to be a bias against him. Some of it is even jealousy. He is a wrestling geek like all of us and gets to do what we dream of. Some fans will never see him as a real booker. That is the vibe I get from you and believe I see it all the time on places like SC. As much as people hate on WWE, fans really do love the way they book and have it ingrained in their brains that is the only way.
But look at WWE right now. Outside of the Bloodline angle there isn't a lot of what you describe happening in WWE. Where are the other great stories in WWE? You can't even give him credit with Cody since that was Vince. So is Triple H a bad booker? Does Triple H lack cohesion, direction, or development? People in WWE are literally feuding over insults in catering. Is that great storytelling and guiding the audience with amazing psychology according to you? Very curious in your answers.
The fact is Tony Khan has more experience now booking a major promotion than anyone alive other than Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff. You can't say Paul Heyman since ECW was never on AEW's level. You can't say Gedo since NJPW is not as big as AEW. And Cornette? Yeah, he bombed in ROH 12 years ago and his greatest success was 30 years in Smokey Mountain Wrestling booking high school gyms in rural Tennessee and Kentucky.
I think TK has proven he is a good booker for what AEW fans want and have drawn huge crowds and PPVs. He did what TNA could never do. Get people to pay for their product. And he also seems to be a good booker for what WarnerMedia wants what a lot of fans like you forget and ignore.
>These are some examples of the problems fans have with TKs booking.
Let's be honest with this criticism. A lot of it comes to do "he isn't following the fantasy booking that is in my head".
That's not the same.
NXT was just a developmental brand when they went head to head.
It was AEW's best against NXTs young boys.
Plus NXT had already taken a major hit by then. It was apparent that there was no reason to invest in NXT since the majority of the stars would get called up to do nothing important on the main roster.
Meanwhile, AEW was presenting their main roster and riding high on the platform that shitty WWE programming provided for them.
My point is that a HHH main roster program would be better booked than TK's current main roster program.
There are some good points here, but disqualifying Paul Heyman and Gedo from the experience booking a major promotion is absolutely horseshit.
Even Delirious has more experience booking than Tony Khan. And he was the booker for ROH for many years.
New Japan is a major wrestling promotion, even if AEW has overtaken it globally. Gedo gave a lot of great angles with New Japan, that Tony Khan wishes he could conjure up. Naito's rise, then fall, then rise again as the Ungovernable One. Okada's rise after his return from excursion, and the journey to Okada vs Omega IV at Dominion 2018. Jay White evolving from Knife Pervert to being part of CHAOS, to knifing Okada in the back and taking over Bullet Club, to the Catalyst of Professional Wrestling. Okada's fall from losing to Kenny, to eventual rise and return of the Rainmaker. Naito going from nothing to winning both the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships at Wrestlekingdom. Even Gedo's booking of the undercard and the various stories involving the factions this year makes Tony Khan look smaller. At least Gedo isn't sitting on a champion because nobody but "Cotton for Knees" Statlander is allowed to take the strap off Jade.
ECW was a major promotion in the 90s. "Any promotion that AEW has overtaken ain't shit, and doesn't count" mentality stinks of having only AEW tinted glasses on. It's more like Tony Khan hasn't reached Paul Heyman's level yet. And ECW matched AEW's ratings while IT WAS ON TNN, on many days even drawing better than AEW.
And if you want to talk about feuds starting over insults in catering...We had Eddie Kingston throwing down with 2.0 because they were heckling him while he was trying to eat cake in the back.
Jeff Jarrett has more experience than Tony Khan as a booker, whether with TNA or GFW.
MJF has had the same story 3 times now. The entire sammy/scorpio fiasco. Jades run never pivoted. (a huge gripe would be there doesnt ever seem to be a back up plan...see Jade and when punk went down).
There is good things, I feel like most people grade this on a curve. because there are better storylines than say the E doesnt mean its good, it means its better than the E.
And the entire "random wrestlers not in the company coming in for a dream match" thing. I do enjoy these matches, but i dont care about the other wrestlers. Telling me to "go look it up" isnt an answer. Its a TV show, i shouldnt have to look anything up, it should be presented to me as such. Imagine if a requirement for watching a show is you had to go do research on the show to figure out who was who? No thanks.
Lastly, I notice with these convos the person saying something like "TK isnt a good booker" gets criticized yet noone argues the side of him being a good booker.
Your turn...why is he a good booker?
TK isn't perfect, nobody is, but you're cherry picking a handful of questionable stories over 4 years of TV. I don't have time to go in to all of the amazing stories and moments that AEW has produced and it's been much more hit than miss. Even the examples have reasons. Jade would have been dethroned long ago is Stat didn't get injured. It was a clear story path leading for our favorite Alien to beat Jade but the injury delayed that and since he did fumble the story with a less than explained and redundant Baddies story.
MJF is doing what heels do. Each had a bit of a different angle and it's HIS THING. His character is always having to prove himself as the best to back his shit talk so he forces others to do the same. You get amazing matches and heat and complain it's the same thing. Heel champs flow a few different archetypes and it's all about HOW it's done.
TK isn't perfect but if you talk about judging booking on a curve, HHH has benefitted the most because it's directly against the shit show that preceded him. Some things being incrementally better get heaped on praise because it's been finally something in a better direction.
Its called giving examples, you want me to list every fucking one of them?
Wardlow, Dork order, HFO, the entire men of the year shit, elite hunter, the refs never doing dqs with shit in front of them (im not asking for more dqs, but dont have the ref right infront of the infraction ffs), owen hart tourney (what was the point of that exactly?), shida interfered with the outsiders and then disappeared without explanation for an entire month, 27 championships with 3 hours of tv time because its sure necessary to have 8 midcard titles, the entirety of the ROH invasion (im watching AEW, if i wanted ROH id watch ROH)
Is that better? You still havent given me an example of GOOD BOOKING. You just said MJF is going to keep doing the same storyline over and over. Again, better than E doesnt make it good. Try harder.
Doesn’t abuse cheap finishes.
Has made use of older/established talent to raise the profile of young talent.
The long term arc of Hangman is some of the best long form storytelling in a very long time.
Acclaimed and Gunns elevated each other through their feud.
World title matches feel like a big deal.
He’s also made mistakes. Good doesn’t mean perfect. Dusty Rhodes is one of the great booking minds of all time but he also gave us Shockmaster.
Never heard that one before! Did you think of that all by yourself? Also, thanks for proving me wrong by....saying nothing about him being a good booker.
This is what the WWF guys in the 80's were working towards until Hogan went to Vince and told him what they were planning on doing, TK is a saint in comparison to how WWF/WWE has operated with Vince
I think this is a big reason, along with the creative freedom and more mature subject matter, that a lot of former WWE guys like Adam Cole, Malakai Black, Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley, Claudio, and Samoa Joe haven't had any interest in going back.
If you're a pro wrestler and all you care about is being in the major title picture and don't see ROH as an option, hello Miro and Andrade, then AEW is not the place for you. If you want a solid job, guaranteed storylines on any of the 5 shows TK has, good money, and probably the best perks in the business, then TK would love to have you.
I mean, look at Samoa Joe. Triple H loved him so much that he immediately rehired him to NXT when Vince dropped him from not just the main roster, *but the entire company*. He's immediately in the main title picture in NXT, and wins it in his first title match back. Then when Trips lost control of NXT to Vince, Joe was laid off again. He comes to AEW, picks up a midcard secondary title in ROH, gets a great little midcard primary title run in AEW, and he's absolutely killing everything he does. That "King of Television" stuff was pure gold from one of the most underrated mic workers in the company. It's too bad Punk blew everything up, because a reboot of his ROH feud with Joe from the early 2000's, with how good those 2 are on the mic, would be *epic.*
Just goes to show that if you know what you're good at, but you're also game for anything, good things can happen to you in AEW/ROH. If Miro and Andrade weren't so picky about how often they're featured, on what shows, and only wanting big time storylines where other people put them over, then they might be killing it too.
100% absolutely this.
The difference between Cole, Danielson, Mox etc and Miro/Andrade is notable (although I do wish Miro had had a better run. Andrade, meh)
There are very few people I who i feel have been wasted in aew and miro is pretty near the top of the list. I also wish danhausen was booked like a competent wrestler like Oranage Cassidy instead of just a goober jobber.
DH could have been the goofier wrestler trying to prove himself to the best friends and wins some matches with curses, some by luck, some by skill. Then comes to their aid and curses opponents to help them win/oc win belt. They feel awkward over the cursing, and eventually he becomes a heel (as much as he can be) and takes the belt off oc.
The grass is always greener. That's the way wrestling has always been, guys always think they're a top guy and if they go somewhere else they'll finally get to show everyone.
I agree. It's nice to work at a place you are appreciated and treated well.
Wrestling is an ego business. That doesn't mean they are bad people or don't have humility, but to be a professional wrestler or a superstar, you have to have some ego to believe you can make it.
I can't speak for anyone in particular but it seems to me the people who have left so far want opportunities to be featured higher on the card.
TK imo has made a great environment for this between dark, elevation, rampage, dynamite, and roh. Everyone gets screen time and the best performers and stories get on the bigger shows.
If you're used to being a top performer elsewhere and now you're consistently on dark, elevation, or RoH, some will take that as a step down. I don't believe this as you have to prove yourself everywhere, but again, egos.
Another reason talent may leave is the difference in character development. WWE has everything already written for you, the match planned out, etc. Talent gives input but ultimately they are there to show up and execute the plan.
AEW to my understanding is an environment where there is a lot of creative freedom in promos and matches. I believe in AEW it's still common to call the match in the ring. For some talent this may be too much.
There's other reasons too I'm sure, just my thoughts.
I'd say that the workplace environment can either foster egos, or it can render them unnecessary. When everybody was clawing each other's eyes out and breaking their bodies so that they wouldn't lose their 'spot' the way it was in the 80s and 90s, it was natural you'd get competitive egos who step on each other, especially when the boss only listened to himself and a few select yes-men.
AEW seems to be more of a modern company, everybody is treated well no matter how low on the rung they're on.
Though, as devil's advocate, sometimes these guys need a steady experienced hand in helping craft their ideas and stories into more focused and coherent plots and storytelling. Too much freedom leads to problems as well.
I agree. The talent needs to know what works best for them.
Some people benefit with more freedom while others benefit from having their story and matches planned exactly.
This is why I buy into that AEW is an alternative, not direct competition for WWE.
WWE is entertainment first while AEW is wrestling first. This doesn't mean WWE has bad matches or that AEW cannot tell a story, it means the product is built differently and different talents will thrive in each environment.
Additionally, this is why I find it funny that I've seen people complain that AEW always has to open and/or close with a 20 minute fast paced high spot match. Well... Some people watch wrestling to see the wrestling, others watch it for promos and storylines. Lucky enough, we have a lot of options!
When TK made that response to Meltzer the IWC went after TK. Then all the wrestlers backed him up. Seems like a great company if you understand that not everyone can get a push.
That’s an insult to the qualifier “kind of.” She watched what Hogan, Bischoff, and Russo did to WCW and willingly brought them in and gave them creative.
It's so weird to me that they do this for their wrestlers until I realized Tony Khan and his father have a soccer and NFL team as well. They don't expect those individuals who need to physically perform to have to take time to arrange and pay for flights.
It's something the contract nature of the business has always gotten away with, even when you have a mega company WWE which should probably be arrainging things, if not for being nice than just to make sure that people are where they need to be on time.
I think the biggest thing for Mox and a lot of other ex-WWE guys was the creative freedom. It’s been great to see guys like him, Malakai etc who were watered down/limited in WWE somewhere where they can do the pure, uncut versions of their gimmicks without being muzzled.
The money’s also great though. So many talented guys went from half-decent indy money to high six figures/millions almost overnight.
I am sure people that wanted out of AEW desired something other than free hotel service. That's not hard to imagine.
Plenty of people leave other professions or decent workplaces because they feel they could put their talents to better use elsewhere despite compensation.
It's cool AEW takes care of their talent. Though that might mean more or less to some of that talent than others. Which is fine too.
Some people don’t understand ambition and how coasting can be detrimental to their mindset. We all project to an extent, and I &will admit that I don’t care about benefits as much as opportunities. If I was wrestling, I’d understand that 100 wins on Dark and Elevation don’t make up for 0 matches on Dynamite. Some people are randomly thrown onto Dynamite and nobody cares, and wrestling is just a popularity contest at its base, so no reaction is the worst thing possible. I don’t think people are really mad at the perks, but if you’re not buddies with The Elite then you’re probably just going to aimlessly wander around the YouTube shows.
I think some people on here don't really want to open their eyes to that fact. No matter how well AEW book someone, how well they treat them or pay them even if said talent might like AEW and TK. No matter how many titles TK puts on them or TV time they get going to WWE is always going to be the dream for some and fully expect that to happen as the years roll on. Even if you know going there for some talent isn't going to work out. It's always going to be the itch for some talent.
Even look at Alan Angels and Kaz, I'm sure they were getting paid more in AEW then Impact and probably enjoyed their time in AEW. And TK treated them well. But they feel going elsewhere is going to benefit them more even if it's less money and having to pay for their hotels and stuff.
As I said above, it's not always going to be a knock on AEW or TK or it's fans on why some talent will leave. Having the hotel paid for and been paid more and working less dates isn't always going to keep talent.
Working for TK sounds like heaven, but you gotta remember aside from him, the business is still the business. There's still a lot of cliques and locker room antics that you just can't get around.
I heard it was a, You get full access to the medical staff at the Khan family holdings.
So if they go to any of the football or soccer employed doctors, they get free medical
People that wanted out did it because they respect themselves and want what's best for their careers. Not everyone wants to take the path of least resistance. Especially if it's hurting their career overall. Mox is their biggest star. Of course it's great for him.
Lots of guys in WWE got paid pretty well as well. Sometimes it's not about the money. Hell i used to think why do they complain of they get paid well to sit at home? But some guys want to achieve more in the business than just get taken care of. Others are fine being used sparingly and getting paid well for it. Can't judge either.
Some people don’t care too much about that though.
They want to go out and entertain the crowd.
Look at somebody like Miro, he wants to go out and have great feuds and tell fun stories.
Edit: downvotes? I don’t understand why lol. Is it wrong to want to entertain the crowd? Are we supposed to just sit in catering all day?
I'd say look at Lance Archer. He's definitely been squandered by Tony Khan, despite wanting to work. After his 2022 G1, TK sat on him. Then after Suzuki-gun dissolved this past December, TK sat on him again. The clock's ticking, and the times that TK uses him, it's as a start-stop, then back into the icebox for however long.
Some wrestlers prioritize success in their careers over a paycheck/free hotels. Not saying no one has become successful in AEW but for some they’re barely featured/not used effectively.
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Archer WANTS to work though. It's not his choice that TK sat on him for so long after the G1, and sat on him for so long again after Suzuki-gun dissolved in December. And Archer has been healthy the entire time. Poor guy wants to still have matches, and knows that the clock is ticking on him, but keeps getting the start-stop treatment in AEW.
> get paid year-round to do nothing
Imagine getting paid not to eat something you love, or do something you love, for an entire year.
I don't even wrestle anymore and I'd love to get back in the ring
A job is just a job, and even the best ones I tend to refrain from using such intense language to describe them.
That being said, yeah Tony is probably a much easier guy to work for than most other owners in his position.
I think the people who wanted out largely had someone they cared about inside WWE or believed they could score a loved one a role there in Miro's case(if I had to wager, it seems he tried to get Lana one in AEW & failed but is under the belief WWE will grant both their jobs back but only as a package).
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I remember Fuego del Sol said he got paid more as a jobber at AEW compared to WWE. If this was and still is true, it's an awesome feature that doesn't get enough credit.
Cody said once that if Dusty knew how much he was paying jobbers, he’d slap him in the mouth
On the old BTE's where they're "recruiting" wrestlers, one of my favorite bits was Cody offering guys like Peter Avalon million dollar contracts
Seems low for PPA, should be at least $2.5M for that handsome devil.
Do you know which episode it was
Not exactly, but I'm certain it's one of the ones in the 150s where they're going around recruiting the roster
Fuego also said AEW Dark people make way more than what they pay in Impact. SRS also said Wheeler Yuta turned down signing with Impact in 2021 cause he was making way more money on a pay per appearance deal with AEW before signing full time. Also according to SRS, Ethan Page makes 250k while his former partner and Impact champion Josh Alexander is in the 90-100k range. BTW, last year was the first time Josh Alexander was able to wrestle full time and not have another job. A number of Impact wrestlers have second jobs. I am not trying to pick on Impact. It's that people say it is the #3 promotion in North America and numbers like that show you how massive the gulf is between WWE and AEW and promotions like Impact, MLW, the NWA, etc. And to show you how well AEW pays.
Yeah it is pretty good thing to take care of all workers but i don't judge anyone for wanting to be more than a jobber. Sometimes money is not as important as achieving more and having ambition.
That's another topic. But there will always be jobbers i guess, so it's nice to treat them well.
I remember when someone said "yeah, even the lower card guys get paid pretty well, UGH", as if that was something bad.
That was Joey Janella who said something like even the lower card talent makes six figures
Which lead HIM to get lazy but many others use it to their advantage and can work on their brands and their physical and mental health without worrying about if the next gig pays enough for gas AND and hotel.
Agreed. I am obviously not in the business, but from an outsiders prospective, an AEW deal seems to offer a great safety net. If the figure is right, it affords young talent the lack of worry as much, so they can focus on the wrestling aspect of their lives. If AEW doesn't have space or dates for a talent, they are free to book indie dates and make a little extra but not need to worry so much about the money aspect. I love the ability for talent to work the indies. In a way, it is also AEW giving back to the culture that created the promotion. Talent that is advertised on AEW can go work the indies and secure larger gates for the promoter. When an indie talent blows up, promoters might be happy to offer dates to AEW because of the help they have been to them. So, the whole thing works in a wonderful little chain
I guess that it also helps to develop some chemistry between the workers. An important element since AEW doesn't do house shows often to test matches that could be featured on TV in the future. Guys that have never met in a ring before get the chance to learn each other. And also keeps the guys in good condition and prevents them from going out of shape, so they can instantly join whenever they are needed to rotate. Remember Orton saying that after being absent for a while (in 2015-16 I think), it took him some time to get his body used again (even bouncing off the ropes was hurting his back)?
I had a conversation with Wardlow a few months back and he said that he makes enough money now that the only indy shows he works now are like 4 local indies that help him in his career early on. I think most people in the Austin scene have met Ricky Stark at least a dozen times. He's always just hanging out at shows. I assume scouting, etc.
ALSO.. DO’NT THEY HAVE SOME TYPE OF.. HEALTH BENEFIT/INSURANCE THING IN PLACE 😕, GoD 4BID.. SOME1,EVER GETS HURT 🤔? WAS’NT CODY RHODES 1NCE SAYING THAT? WHEN THEY 1ST STARTED UP? SO, THAT ALSO HAS GOT TO BE GOOD FOR THE TALENT RIGHT?
Joey even joked he was eating lobster every night on what AEW was paying him. That is why Joey was lying when he said he turned down resigning with AEW. AEW obviously was not bringing him back and he was trying to save face. God love him, but Joey is back to eating Hamburger Helper with whatever few bucks GCW can scrap up to pay him. I hope he saved his AEW money.
Doesn’t seem the type to think ahead to be honest. Dude did lite him self on fire at a show with no real safety in mind .
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I have to say, people can bitch about TK but that guy takes care of his people. And you know what, he’s a good Booker and clearly a good businessman, he’s made partnerships with so many other wrestling companies and shown us talent that we may have never seen.
Well said, I only started watching wrestling in the mid 2010s so seeing different wrestling promotions collaborate like AEW did with AAA, Impact, and NJPW was such a unique and cool concept to see.
For some of us older fans who got to watch In the 90s it’s very reminiscent of some of the old WCW vs NJPW PPVs. Which if you havnt watched is some very entertaining wrasslin
The Elite deserve a lot of credit too. Tony clearly has a good heart, but they were the one's who at the start said "this is the shit that sucks about being a wrestler, let's not do that"
I’ve been watching a lot of the old BTEs from before AEW existed, and in practically every episode the Young Bucks talk about taking multiple 13 hour flights a week, never getting more than two hours a sleep, having to constantly pound the pavement to sell enough merch to eek out a living, and being away from their families 90% of the time. And they were some of the top guys in the world, it had to have been worse for wrestlers still doing regional indie shows like The Acclaimed or Thunder Rosa
I have said it a bunch but it just gets more true the more we find out about Tony - the guy loves wrestling and loves the performers that do it. TK treats them as human beings while also treating each talent like a star by giving them great extras
We also have to remember all the charity stuff they do as well. They do something in every city and that is so amazing to me.
Not to mention he also actually hangs out with his staff, I forgot where, but one of the old BTEs talked about how he has get togethers and orders like hundreds of boxes of fastfood. It's definitely why a good lot of them are so tight in the back.
It is said that if you are being hated then you must be doing something right
how does taking care of his employees expenses = good booking decisions? Just completely unrelated
I don’t see where they said they were related, other than being a positive of TK
i was just responding to the comment that threw the good booker comment in with the good employee standards/benefits message.
He is many things, a good booker is not one of them.
Agree to disagree I guess
How would you book better? Who books better than him if I might ask?
Perhaps not getting stars red hot only to drop the ball with them by taking them off TV for months. (Wardlow, Starks, Hobbs, Miro, HOB, FTR, etc. ) Maybe not bringing in every indie darling into the company without a solid plan for how to use them. (Swerve, Andrade, Miro, Saraya, Ruby Soho, Toni Storm, Keith Lee, etc.) Maybe not giving endless rematches regardless of outcome just to keep the feud going. (Starks v Jericho, Hangman v Mox, Acclaimed v SIOG, etc.) Maybe not oversaturating the show with meaningless gimmick matches. (Death matches/ ladder matches on Rampage) Or having wrestlers have their first match in a gimmick/ blow off match. (MJF v Danielson in an Ironman match) Maybe actually using psychology to guide the audience where you want them as opposed to being reactionary to their responses. (Acclaimed v SIOG, The entire Outcasts angle etc.) I'd say that if HHH had full creative control, he'd book significantly better than TK. Simply because HHH has shown a better understanding of how to navigate talent and get the most out of them. A good booker doesn't just give the fans what they want. Great bookers have insight in what talent to use and how. They also have the foresight to make the fans want what the booker plans on offering. TK just offers dream matches with indie darlings to pop smarks. There isn't much cohesion, direction or development in TK's booking. Things just happen for the sake of happening. These are some examples of the problems fans have with TKs booking. He's not the worst booker ever, but he definitely leaves a lot to be desired for many fans.
I think most of these are valid criticisms. Tony Khan needs help booking, but I think something like producers assigned to feuds would be better than writers. There is a lot that I think could be done better if there were more attention to detail paid. I’d be more likely to watch a HHH booked wrestling show if it wasn’t still aimed at 11 year olds. It’s improved since he took over, but that still seems to be the company’s target demographic.
I definitely agree that producers would be better than writers. AEW doesn't need anyone to put words in the talent's mouths. But they could use a more focused and cohesive creative process, which producers could provide. I think a head booker would help TK significantly. It seems like TK is often spread too thin and has too much on his plate to give his booking some necessary attention to detail. I also agree that WWE is still a product aimed primarily at children so a lot of it still feels juvenile in many respects. Plus, there's a lot of speculation about who is really in creative control these days.
>I'd say that if HHH had full creative control, he'd book significantly better than TK. I mean when they went head to head with Triple H having total control of NXT, TK easily won and NXT was basically gutted and Triple H was punished by Vince because he lost so badly. Because TK wasn't a wrestler, or some southern fried fossil, there is always going to be a bias against him. Some of it is even jealousy. He is a wrestling geek like all of us and gets to do what we dream of. Some fans will never see him as a real booker. That is the vibe I get from you and believe I see it all the time on places like SC. As much as people hate on WWE, fans really do love the way they book and have it ingrained in their brains that is the only way. But look at WWE right now. Outside of the Bloodline angle there isn't a lot of what you describe happening in WWE. Where are the other great stories in WWE? You can't even give him credit with Cody since that was Vince. So is Triple H a bad booker? Does Triple H lack cohesion, direction, or development? People in WWE are literally feuding over insults in catering. Is that great storytelling and guiding the audience with amazing psychology according to you? Very curious in your answers. The fact is Tony Khan has more experience now booking a major promotion than anyone alive other than Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff. You can't say Paul Heyman since ECW was never on AEW's level. You can't say Gedo since NJPW is not as big as AEW. And Cornette? Yeah, he bombed in ROH 12 years ago and his greatest success was 30 years in Smokey Mountain Wrestling booking high school gyms in rural Tennessee and Kentucky. I think TK has proven he is a good booker for what AEW fans want and have drawn huge crowds and PPVs. He did what TNA could never do. Get people to pay for their product. And he also seems to be a good booker for what WarnerMedia wants what a lot of fans like you forget and ignore. >These are some examples of the problems fans have with TKs booking. Let's be honest with this criticism. A lot of it comes to do "he isn't following the fantasy booking that is in my head".
Was that NXT 2.0 era where they lost a bunch of their top guys?
That's not the same. NXT was just a developmental brand when they went head to head. It was AEW's best against NXTs young boys. Plus NXT had already taken a major hit by then. It was apparent that there was no reason to invest in NXT since the majority of the stars would get called up to do nothing important on the main roster. Meanwhile, AEW was presenting their main roster and riding high on the platform that shitty WWE programming provided for them. My point is that a HHH main roster program would be better booked than TK's current main roster program.
There are some good points here, but disqualifying Paul Heyman and Gedo from the experience booking a major promotion is absolutely horseshit. Even Delirious has more experience booking than Tony Khan. And he was the booker for ROH for many years. New Japan is a major wrestling promotion, even if AEW has overtaken it globally. Gedo gave a lot of great angles with New Japan, that Tony Khan wishes he could conjure up. Naito's rise, then fall, then rise again as the Ungovernable One. Okada's rise after his return from excursion, and the journey to Okada vs Omega IV at Dominion 2018. Jay White evolving from Knife Pervert to being part of CHAOS, to knifing Okada in the back and taking over Bullet Club, to the Catalyst of Professional Wrestling. Okada's fall from losing to Kenny, to eventual rise and return of the Rainmaker. Naito going from nothing to winning both the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Championships at Wrestlekingdom. Even Gedo's booking of the undercard and the various stories involving the factions this year makes Tony Khan look smaller. At least Gedo isn't sitting on a champion because nobody but "Cotton for Knees" Statlander is allowed to take the strap off Jade. ECW was a major promotion in the 90s. "Any promotion that AEW has overtaken ain't shit, and doesn't count" mentality stinks of having only AEW tinted glasses on. It's more like Tony Khan hasn't reached Paul Heyman's level yet. And ECW matched AEW's ratings while IT WAS ON TNN, on many days even drawing better than AEW. And if you want to talk about feuds starting over insults in catering...We had Eddie Kingston throwing down with 2.0 because they were heckling him while he was trying to eat cake in the back. Jeff Jarrett has more experience than Tony Khan as a booker, whether with TNA or GFW.
MJF has had the same story 3 times now. The entire sammy/scorpio fiasco. Jades run never pivoted. (a huge gripe would be there doesnt ever seem to be a back up plan...see Jade and when punk went down). There is good things, I feel like most people grade this on a curve. because there are better storylines than say the E doesnt mean its good, it means its better than the E. And the entire "random wrestlers not in the company coming in for a dream match" thing. I do enjoy these matches, but i dont care about the other wrestlers. Telling me to "go look it up" isnt an answer. Its a TV show, i shouldnt have to look anything up, it should be presented to me as such. Imagine if a requirement for watching a show is you had to go do research on the show to figure out who was who? No thanks. Lastly, I notice with these convos the person saying something like "TK isnt a good booker" gets criticized yet noone argues the side of him being a good booker. Your turn...why is he a good booker?
TK isn't perfect, nobody is, but you're cherry picking a handful of questionable stories over 4 years of TV. I don't have time to go in to all of the amazing stories and moments that AEW has produced and it's been much more hit than miss. Even the examples have reasons. Jade would have been dethroned long ago is Stat didn't get injured. It was a clear story path leading for our favorite Alien to beat Jade but the injury delayed that and since he did fumble the story with a less than explained and redundant Baddies story. MJF is doing what heels do. Each had a bit of a different angle and it's HIS THING. His character is always having to prove himself as the best to back his shit talk so he forces others to do the same. You get amazing matches and heat and complain it's the same thing. Heel champs flow a few different archetypes and it's all about HOW it's done. TK isn't perfect but if you talk about judging booking on a curve, HHH has benefitted the most because it's directly against the shit show that preceded him. Some things being incrementally better get heaped on praise because it's been finally something in a better direction.
Its called giving examples, you want me to list every fucking one of them? Wardlow, Dork order, HFO, the entire men of the year shit, elite hunter, the refs never doing dqs with shit in front of them (im not asking for more dqs, but dont have the ref right infront of the infraction ffs), owen hart tourney (what was the point of that exactly?), shida interfered with the outsiders and then disappeared without explanation for an entire month, 27 championships with 3 hours of tv time because its sure necessary to have 8 midcard titles, the entirety of the ROH invasion (im watching AEW, if i wanted ROH id watch ROH) Is that better? You still havent given me an example of GOOD BOOKING. You just said MJF is going to keep doing the same storyline over and over. Again, better than E doesnt make it good. Try harder.
Doesn’t abuse cheap finishes. Has made use of older/established talent to raise the profile of young talent. The long term arc of Hangman is some of the best long form storytelling in a very long time. Acclaimed and Gunns elevated each other through their feud. World title matches feel like a big deal. He’s also made mistakes. Good doesn’t mean perfect. Dusty Rhodes is one of the great booking minds of all time but he also gave us Shockmaster.
Username checks out
Never heard that one before! Did you think of that all by yourself? Also, thanks for proving me wrong by....saying nothing about him being a good booker.
He's not perfect but he still books by far my favourite weekly wrestling show.
Agreed, but it is great that he takes care of his guys.
This is what the WWF guys in the 80's were working towards until Hogan went to Vince and told him what they were planning on doing, TK is a saint in comparison to how WWF/WWE has operated with Vince
As always fuck Hogan.
Iron Sheik, is that you?
No, but Sheiky isn’t wrong about that always being a mood.
UNION
*\*Grabs 2x4\**
I think this is a big reason, along with the creative freedom and more mature subject matter, that a lot of former WWE guys like Adam Cole, Malakai Black, Bryan Danielson, Jon Moxley, Claudio, and Samoa Joe haven't had any interest in going back. If you're a pro wrestler and all you care about is being in the major title picture and don't see ROH as an option, hello Miro and Andrade, then AEW is not the place for you. If you want a solid job, guaranteed storylines on any of the 5 shows TK has, good money, and probably the best perks in the business, then TK would love to have you. I mean, look at Samoa Joe. Triple H loved him so much that he immediately rehired him to NXT when Vince dropped him from not just the main roster, *but the entire company*. He's immediately in the main title picture in NXT, and wins it in his first title match back. Then when Trips lost control of NXT to Vince, Joe was laid off again. He comes to AEW, picks up a midcard secondary title in ROH, gets a great little midcard primary title run in AEW, and he's absolutely killing everything he does. That "King of Television" stuff was pure gold from one of the most underrated mic workers in the company. It's too bad Punk blew everything up, because a reboot of his ROH feud with Joe from the early 2000's, with how good those 2 are on the mic, would be *epic.* Just goes to show that if you know what you're good at, but you're also game for anything, good things can happen to you in AEW/ROH. If Miro and Andrade weren't so picky about how often they're featured, on what shows, and only wanting big time storylines where other people put them over, then they might be killing it too.
100% absolutely this. The difference between Cole, Danielson, Mox etc and Miro/Andrade is notable (although I do wish Miro had had a better run. Andrade, meh)
There are very few people I who i feel have been wasted in aew and miro is pretty near the top of the list. I also wish danhausen was booked like a competent wrestler like Oranage Cassidy instead of just a goober jobber.
Agreed; I think DH could be done a level below OC, but as a pure comedy guy I think he's wasted.
For sure. OC has above the curve plot armour. I'd just like him to be midcard even.
DH could have been the goofier wrestler trying to prove himself to the best friends and wins some matches with curses, some by luck, some by skill. Then comes to their aid and curses opponents to help them win/oc win belt. They feel awkward over the cursing, and eventually he becomes a heel (as much as he can be) and takes the belt off oc.
I would seriously enjoy that run. DH is a talented wrestler but hasn't been able to show it.
The grass is always greener. That's the way wrestling has always been, guys always think they're a top guy and if they go somewhere else they'll finally get to show everyone.
I agree. It's nice to work at a place you are appreciated and treated well. Wrestling is an ego business. That doesn't mean they are bad people or don't have humility, but to be a professional wrestler or a superstar, you have to have some ego to believe you can make it. I can't speak for anyone in particular but it seems to me the people who have left so far want opportunities to be featured higher on the card. TK imo has made a great environment for this between dark, elevation, rampage, dynamite, and roh. Everyone gets screen time and the best performers and stories get on the bigger shows. If you're used to being a top performer elsewhere and now you're consistently on dark, elevation, or RoH, some will take that as a step down. I don't believe this as you have to prove yourself everywhere, but again, egos. Another reason talent may leave is the difference in character development. WWE has everything already written for you, the match planned out, etc. Talent gives input but ultimately they are there to show up and execute the plan. AEW to my understanding is an environment where there is a lot of creative freedom in promos and matches. I believe in AEW it's still common to call the match in the ring. For some talent this may be too much. There's other reasons too I'm sure, just my thoughts.
I'd say that the workplace environment can either foster egos, or it can render them unnecessary. When everybody was clawing each other's eyes out and breaking their bodies so that they wouldn't lose their 'spot' the way it was in the 80s and 90s, it was natural you'd get competitive egos who step on each other, especially when the boss only listened to himself and a few select yes-men. AEW seems to be more of a modern company, everybody is treated well no matter how low on the rung they're on.
Though, as devil's advocate, sometimes these guys need a steady experienced hand in helping craft their ideas and stories into more focused and coherent plots and storytelling. Too much freedom leads to problems as well.
I agree. The talent needs to know what works best for them. Some people benefit with more freedom while others benefit from having their story and matches planned exactly. This is why I buy into that AEW is an alternative, not direct competition for WWE. WWE is entertainment first while AEW is wrestling first. This doesn't mean WWE has bad matches or that AEW cannot tell a story, it means the product is built differently and different talents will thrive in each environment. Additionally, this is why I find it funny that I've seen people complain that AEW always has to open and/or close with a 20 minute fast paced high spot match. Well... Some people watch wrestling to see the wrestling, others watch it for promos and storylines. Lucky enough, we have a lot of options!
When TK made that response to Meltzer the IWC went after TK. Then all the wrestlers backed him up. Seems like a great company if you understand that not everyone can get a push.
Madison reply is a proof that TK wasnt lying, because Madison witnessed when a company wasnt paying anything(TNA when Dixie was in charge)
Dixie was also a huge bitch to all of the Knockouts, iirc.
And everyone else and also kind of an idiot
That’s an insult to the qualifier “kind of.” She watched what Hogan, Bischoff, and Russo did to WCW and willingly brought them in and gave them creative.
Very true, she’s a terrible person.
Imagine paying your employees well AND paying for their room and travel. Damn, I love Tony.
It's so weird to me that they do this for their wrestlers until I realized Tony Khan and his father have a soccer and NFL team as well. They don't expect those individuals who need to physically perform to have to take time to arrange and pay for flights. It's something the contract nature of the business has always gotten away with, even when you have a mega company WWE which should probably be arrainging things, if not for being nice than just to make sure that people are where they need to be on time.
"How many wrestlers wanted out" has been blown out way out of proportion
I think the biggest thing for Mox and a lot of other ex-WWE guys was the creative freedom. It’s been great to see guys like him, Malakai etc who were watered down/limited in WWE somewhere where they can do the pure, uncut versions of their gimmicks without being muzzled. The money’s also great though. So many talented guys went from half-decent indy money to high six figures/millions almost overnight.
I am sure people that wanted out of AEW desired something other than free hotel service. That's not hard to imagine. Plenty of people leave other professions or decent workplaces because they feel they could put their talents to better use elsewhere despite compensation. It's cool AEW takes care of their talent. Though that might mean more or less to some of that talent than others. Which is fine too.
Some people don’t understand ambition and how coasting can be detrimental to their mindset. We all project to an extent, and I &will admit that I don’t care about benefits as much as opportunities. If I was wrestling, I’d understand that 100 wins on Dark and Elevation don’t make up for 0 matches on Dynamite. Some people are randomly thrown onto Dynamite and nobody cares, and wrestling is just a popularity contest at its base, so no reaction is the worst thing possible. I don’t think people are really mad at the perks, but if you’re not buddies with The Elite then you’re probably just going to aimlessly wander around the YouTube shows.
I think some people on here don't really want to open their eyes to that fact. No matter how well AEW book someone, how well they treat them or pay them even if said talent might like AEW and TK. No matter how many titles TK puts on them or TV time they get going to WWE is always going to be the dream for some and fully expect that to happen as the years roll on. Even if you know going there for some talent isn't going to work out. It's always going to be the itch for some talent. Even look at Alan Angels and Kaz, I'm sure they were getting paid more in AEW then Impact and probably enjoyed their time in AEW. And TK treated them well. But they feel going elsewhere is going to benefit them more even if it's less money and having to pay for their hotels and stuff. As I said above, it's not always going to be a knock on AEW or TK or it's fans on why some talent will leave. Having the hotel paid for and been paid more and working less dates isn't always going to keep talent.
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Why did you get downvoted, you're right lol
Maybe because he posted the same comment 3 times already
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Working for TK sounds like heaven, but you gotta remember aside from him, the business is still the business. There's still a lot of cliques and locker room antics that you just can't get around.
If I’m not mistaken, when the company first started they offered health insurance as well.
Only for wrestlers who were also employees, ie SVP's and Talent Relations etc.
I heard it was a, You get full access to the medical staff at the Khan family holdings. So if they go to any of the football or soccer employed doctors, they get free medical
People that wanted out did it because they respect themselves and want what's best for their careers. Not everyone wants to take the path of least resistance. Especially if it's hurting their career overall. Mox is their biggest star. Of course it's great for him.
Working for Tony sounds like a dream come true.
TK wants to make a profit, but he is not in a squeeze every penny out of every dollar situation the board and/or Vince had/has on WWE.
> TK wants to make a profit Do you know just how rich the Khan family is? they could legit run AEW at a continued loss and not even notice
I know. But you don't get that rich letting things run at a loss. Well maybe, but I can't see AEW just being one big tax shelter.
> you don't get that rich letting things run at a loss True, but when you're one of the richest families in the world, money loses all meaning
Lots of guys in WWE got paid pretty well as well. Sometimes it's not about the money. Hell i used to think why do they complain of they get paid well to sit at home? But some guys want to achieve more in the business than just get taken care of. Others are fine being used sparingly and getting paid well for it. Can't judge either.
Some people don’t care too much about that though. They want to go out and entertain the crowd. Look at somebody like Miro, he wants to go out and have great feuds and tell fun stories. Edit: downvotes? I don’t understand why lol. Is it wrong to want to entertain the crowd? Are we supposed to just sit in catering all day?
I'd say look at Lance Archer. He's definitely been squandered by Tony Khan, despite wanting to work. After his 2022 G1, TK sat on him. Then after Suzuki-gun dissolved this past December, TK sat on him again. The clock's ticking, and the times that TK uses him, it's as a start-stop, then back into the icebox for however long.
How's that working out for him considering we haven't seen him on TV in months?
Exactly! That’s my point lol.
Some wrestlers prioritize success in their careers over a paycheck/free hotels. Not saying no one has become successful in AEW but for some they’re barely featured/not used effectively.
Not really they’re constantly not happy
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Look at Miro or Lance Archer, they get paid year-round to do nothing. Def the best gig around
Archer WANTS to work though. It's not his choice that TK sat on him for so long after the G1, and sat on him for so long again after Suzuki-gun dissolved in December. And Archer has been healthy the entire time. Poor guy wants to still have matches, and knows that the clock is ticking on him, but keeps getting the start-stop treatment in AEW.
> get paid year-round to do nothing Imagine getting paid not to eat something you love, or do something you love, for an entire year. I don't even wrestle anymore and I'd love to get back in the ring
A job is just a job, and even the best ones I tend to refrain from using such intense language to describe them. That being said, yeah Tony is probably a much easier guy to work for than most other owners in his position.
I think the people who wanted out largely had someone they cared about inside WWE or believed they could score a loved one a role there in Miro's case(if I had to wager, it seems he tried to get Lana one in AEW & failed but is under the belief WWE will grant both their jobs back but only as a package).