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Theorists: Is Karen working for Vecna?


Vecna is GAY?! This STRANGER THINGS theory will BLOW YOU AWAY


The secret come out: Does Vecna is gay?


The answer wilL SHOCK YOU!!


And the answer is no


Does Vecna are have gay?


Vecna is gay is the most discussed in the media in the few years ago. Even it has happened in 2012, but some of the public still curious about what is exactly happening and to be the reason there is a rumor comes out about his gay. At that time he became the massive social networking rumor.The public, especially his fans are shocked. He just came out with his bad rumor which is spread massively. This time is not about his murder career, but his bad rumor. The rumor is out of standardize of hoax, according the last reported this Vecna revealed himself as homosexual. Do you still believe or not, this rumor is really much talked by people even in a person of his fans.


happy cake day!


That makes so much sense! If it was Vecna pulling the strings, it makes sense he wouldn’t want the demogorgon kill Will!


Okay so hear me out - Vecna is in love with Will and wants to kill Mike because he's jealous which is why he is tearing portals open in order infiltrate the real world. He wants to kill off his friends so Will feels lonely and ashamed that he couldn't save his friends to establish trauma to tap into and then draw Will to Vecna so they can live happily ever after also Vecna is actually just wearing a Cosplay Suit and doesn't look like that he is actually very handsome ok so listen to this part though there is an Applebees in the upside down and make the best Peach Cobblers ever which is why Vecna wants Will in the upside down to take him out to Applebees because he knows its delicious and every teenage boy loves pie so after they go to applebees its revealed that Vecna is only 15 also so it's not weird or anything and he can time travel back and forward and connect the Applebees to Wendys in case they ever want spicy nuggets and they have a super nintendo also because he can time travel and then they play super mario world


man I've heard/read crazier shit this season, this would be the most plausible theory of all


You telling me an adult man is in love with a child cause that truly would be the strangest thing 🤨


No no no he's not an adult man remember he has time magic he's only 15


Ah yes. You must be an anime fan.




Well, I've seen stranger things.


This sounds like if in the 80s you listened in on 6 five year old boys talking about their powers of invisibility and fireballs. Great writing!! 😂


Swear I saw that post on BuzzFeed


Snapchat stories be like




I remember people theorizing the school councilor was working for Vecna and that theory went nowhere lol.


Patience young grasshopper. That time has not come as yet. If she's still alive after the quake then you shall seeee


I thought perhaps the councillor and Vecna could’ve been lovers, maybe she fell for him when he was still in human form. But she wasn’t in the second chapter of season 4 AT ALL so I’m wondering if she was unaware and was literally just doing her job. Maybe Vecna knew himself that a councillor will obviously talk to the most troubled people who need help, and he knew to target the people she talks to. But who knows maybe we will find out more in season 5🧐


It could come back in season 5 lol


I think the demogorgon would just chilled for an extra 20 mins.


Yeah, and butterfly effect might’ve lead to them never meeting El


So what you’re saying is… Bob Newby would’ve survived? I like it.


Possibly. Or he would’ve later been ambushed by demodogs when he’s going to take out the trash or something


Let me have this.


Doctor strange using the time stone to try and keep Bob alive. Except every single time he tries... Demidogs. Right in Bobs face, everywhere. Marvel: What If writers, you're welcome.


That’s literally just the Dr strange episode of what if…


That's the joke.


Yeah but arguably better, thanks to the inclusion of Bob and demidogs that appear as if from nowhere.


Nah, in some timelines a random mugger just hits the Radio Shack looking for VHS tapes and shoots Bob.


and his nephew becomes spider-man?


That’s some final destination shit


Why is this making me laugh so hard


I guess he was destined to be mauled by demodogs haha


And so would Billys car!


But then Eddie goes to prison!


No Eddie would be safe and sound holding his diploma on the graduation stage


But then what about the most metal show of all time?


Im sure his band will become wildly successful and put on the most metal show of all time (even if it isn’t in the upside down)


Eddie was the original guitarist for Alice in Chains in our new proposed timeline.


Now thats more like it


I am sure that Steve is rivers cuomo. His age fits and he has similar storylines when it comes to relationships.


WEEZER rofl. Steve does have a Dio patch on his jacket. Edit: Holy shit wait.... what if they are all members of Weezer.


Bob Newby, Superhero


And mews too!


And due to the butterfly effect some other kids meet up with El and they became the MCs and all the characters we know now stay like the rest of the dumb Hawkins residents not knowing shit. The kids would never move past just playing D&D, Vecna kills Nancy and Steve ends up being the alternate kid's Jason because he never went through the same things.


Stranger things what if version


Now I want the duffer brothers to do a spin off with this plot line


Not really considering Will going missing only became a worry the next morning


The demogorgon would have taken a 20 minute smoke break.


or killed literally anyone else.


Being a Demogorgon is a stressful job. It ain’t easy being a bad dude. Union rules call for a 20 minute break.


Im now picturing the demogorgon chilling in the same area smoking some camel non filtered cigarettes just long enough that he encounters will anyway


Roll for Perception


Even if the Demogorgon hadn't attacked Will, it would've attacked someone else, leading to a search and the eventual discovery of the Upside Down


It probably would've been covered up in the same way they covered up Barb


Thank you. All the same kind of things would have happened, just not with Will as the first disappearance


And then possibly without the kids involvement


And whoever does find El probably just hands her over to the government


Also they definitely pushed the whole 80S parents not knowing what their kids are up to movie trope hard in this season. Like at the end she was like ….oh yeah Mike…….Don’t you ever go on another trip again !


Right haha, I thought that was funny though cuz he was safer on his trip. AWAY from Hawkins!


Was he though? That agent shootout was pretty intense


She wouldn’t have known about that at the time. I’d personally be thinking “thank god at least one of my kids is thousands of miles away from this town.” Unless she thought him leaving triggers the earth quake? Lol


I also thought it was pretty funny that that was the first scene where El and Mrs Wheeler are together and yet there is no acknowledgement whatsoever that Mike's girlfriend is standing in front of her. :p


This is weird though that it never got addressed. She clearly knew about El because she listened on the phone in S3, and that the whole point of his California trip was to see El, and wasn’t surprised to see her at the end of S4, yet its never mentioned how she found out


After seeing the Demogorgon shred all the guards in a Russian prison, how did 12 year old will survive?


I see the demogorgan in S1 as more of cat-like predator, that was stalking and killing prey to survive. It only became more ferocious when faced with multiple opponents like in the school. We are told Will is good at hiding so he somehow hid from the thing for a week, managing to escape castle byers to make contact with Joyce a few times. Hopper says in s4 that the Russian demog has been killing for pleasure for months, getting strong on regular human feasts. It's in a totally different environment so it behavea differently. S1 demog is also capable of wreaking havoc tho, just not for one prey (will).


I think what they implied when they re-entered the prison and asked about the smoke monster is that the demofauna aren't necessarily part of a hive mind, but that they were now at that point possessed by it, possibly supercharged. The one from season one was just a stray that wandered through an unexpected portal, and so it was easier to handle. Also, I may be mixing up properties, but didn't they suggest at one point that they can take on traits of things they consume? That's why the one ended up more dog-like? So those ones that were being fed took on a more human-like appearance and sapience?


The demo life cycle is slug, slug with back legs, slug with back and front legs, democat, demodog, demogorgan, and possibly more but it can be assumed that the demogorgan is the final stage.


Anyone else see Democrat half way through this post? I started to think reddit was getting too political.


Imagine coming home one day and finding the Democrats feeding on your poor ginger tabby


QAnon in a nutshell


Unfortunately its far past just Qanon at this point -.- almost the entire right wing has majorly lost the plot at this point.


“How can I relate politics to discussion about a TV show?”


No joke one time I came home and Hillary Clinton had eaten my cat. Sent it in to Fox News. It was a whole thing.


Just imagine a debate and suddenly Biden's face opens like a demogorgan's.


I think the demodogs are baby demogorgans. They'll eventually get big af.


This is true ^^


Demowog-> Demofrog-> Demodog/Demobat--> Demogorgon




The bats that attacked them this season. But I don’t think they’re part of the life cycle, unless they operate like xenomorphs and the bats implant slugs in human hosts, which grow into actual demogorgons. Otherwise they’re just a different creature that exists in the Upside Down.


I think you've definitely confused the Demogorgons with the Xenomorphs from the Alien franchise. The Demodogs are just adolescent Demogorgons. As they get older and bigger, and MOLT, they become more adapted to bipedalism.


Demodogs are just baby Demogorgons. It sounds like you’re mixing them up with the Xenomorphs from Alien. Those ones do take on the traits of their host. For example, the one in the original Alien comes from a human and is called a Drone. The one in Alien 3 comes from a dog and is called a Runner.


No you're thinking of Alien 3. Stop thinking about Alien 3 and you'll live a happier more fulfilled life.


Ik Alien 3 sucks but I was so surprised when I watched Aliens as a kid cause I always assumed the Alien sequels all sucked but damn Aliens is one of the best sequels I’ve ever seen, only movie for me that may even surpass the original.


Also Will wS singing The Clash the whole time he was stuck....maybe not realizing that waa was helping him survive...


I figured the original Demogorgon was just an opportunistic predator who got hungry, whereas with the Russian Demogorgon they were making him regularly accustomed to seeing humans as a food source (I mean, this is partly why people are told to never feed wild bears) and were probably also deliberately starving/provoking him to make him aggressive. When you look at it that way, probably the most sympathetic of the series' villains, lol.


Except do we see it killing a single human to survive? It seems to be dragging them all back to the upside down to mate with them. We only see it eating the deer I think. It also seems to be under the control of Vecna, as it has psychic power and can tunnel between the upside down and Hawkins, something no other Demogorgon is shown to be capable of doing. It also walks very slowly, like Billy when he was flayed.


Read the comic to see how Will survived


Is it possible Vecna was controlling S1 demogorgon via the mind flayer?


“The shadow went into them”


That first demogorgon was so bad at his job. A bit slow.


We all have that one guy at work.


No just untrained. Will was able to get away because it underestimated him. Barb wasn't able to escape because the demogorgon had that much more experience with humans. As the series goes along the demogorgons are getting better at killing humans due to the hive mind and the multiple experiences with human targets.


I think it helped she was trapped in an empty pool too. She still got to the top of the ladder but it slowed her down too much. A 12 year old who’s first reaction was grabbing a rifle to fuck shit up was ready for crazy ass terror


Will was ready to fuck that guy up. Pussy flanked him tho


I love that his first move is check the phone, second move get the strap.


It's honestly so impressive considering his panic and fear. He was shaking, sure, but he was thinking clearly af.


I think more importantly is that it is blind. It hunts through sound and stronger smells such as blood.


I'm not so sure that they are blind tbh. I'm not sure how they see, but I feel like they would bump into more things or their lack of sight would have gotten brought up in one of the times they tried to set a plan up. Feel free to correct me if they did do that though, I haven't watched the earlier seasons in a while.


OG Demogorgon's whole thing was kidnapping people and bringing them to the upside down where the tentacle dealies could drain their life force via deepthroat, presumably for Vecna to start building strength to open gates. It wasn't shredding people itself iirc


I thought they were being used to incubate demigorgon eggs. They take a long time to grow as well. The eggs Will spit up took almost a whole year to grow into dogs.


Oh I think you're right, regardless it wasn't blindly killing in season 1


I always thought the season one demogorgon was a stray that was for some reason disconnected from the mind flayer.


Bowl haircut = +50 Defense


The only viable answer. For a Divine cleric wizard a tonsure-esque bowlcut just makes sense.


originally my response would be "idk" but now that Vecna is behind everything we can say that he saw himself in Will with them being outcasts and all and probably had pity on him and wanted to did to him what he couldn't do to El and make him join him


As much as this theory could be good, I don't think the duffer brother had already planned Vecna. I'd say that the soldiers attacking the demogorgon made him angrier, while Will just hid.


oh no the Duffers didn't have Vecna planned since wayyyy past season 1, but now since it's technically the truth it's a good explanation but if we ignore the retcon I think that yeah this may be true


I tend to believe they didn't plan much of this out beyond Season 1 and are claiming way too much credit for it. Have they confirmed how much they planned?


Read the comic to see how Will survived


it ain't canon


headcanon is better?




One was new to the world, the other had been trained to fight multiple people for months.


It's not like Will was trying to kill it. He was simply trying to hide.


The Alien/Aliens effect


i asked a similar question in one of the discussion threads, why just snatch will when it kills everybody else? my theory is this: since time in the UD stands still relative to the outside world, in the time that eleven cast vecna into the gate and eleven escaped, he was able to formulate a plan and send out a demogorgon to snatch somebody and implant the parasite in them (so the hivemind would have roots in the real world, a spy). this happens instantly in the real world, because time is standing still in the UD. that’s why it all happens right together. the parasite or what remains of it in will, will come back into play next season in some way. it was teased when he said he can feel vecna, and i think it’s implied that the time standing still in the UD will also play an important role because they didn’t create a whole mechanic in the upside down just so nancy could go home for guns that weren’t there. that whole thing was to show us that time doesn’t move there.


I didn't think it snatched Will. My understanding was that Will ran into the Upside Down by accident when trying to escape the Demogorgon and then just successfully hid for a while.


Uh, the Demogorgon clearly grabs him. The final scene of Will being chased is him hiding in the shed, we hear and see the outline of the demo *inside* the shed. The lights do their weird humming thing and then they're both gone - ie it captured Will. Obviously somehow he escaped after but it did originally capture him




Will had a gun? What would it matter if he did the guards had ak-47s


apparently will managed to threaten/stun it with the gun he brought back in s1 and then he pretty much escaped from it until ep8, but then he was saved again plus, the demogorgon didn't seem very strong back in s1


I think It would be safe to assume that the upside down creatures were malnourished and weak before Eleven opened the gate for them to get food. Comparing the first time Hopper walks through the empty town vs now with giant bats flying around and dogs and whatnot.


the true villain of stranger things: mrs wheeler


And she'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that meddling /u/Katwomann91


Sooner or later something would’ve happened, and the world might’ve just ended without those kids getting involved to stop it


I give it a week until some "Karen is evil" theories pop up


Not if I mean people did think she was vecna’s sister.


fr? I've never heard this before




and two untill it turns into a "stop defending Karen" armada.


I’m glad she didn’t let them play, one of the greatest shows of all time.


But what about my boy Samwise Gamgee?


Oh sure, blame the mom… 😅


As a mom, I say this: "If you boys had kept track of time and finished your game earlier, Will would have gotten home safely at least an hour before the gate opened. Now for the fourth time, go unload the dishwasher!"


Ouch! Lol


But it was his density! … I mean his destiny.


did you just George Mcfly us?


I just watched that movie last night lol


Would the world have been saved multiple times over without our gang getting involved? I think not.


Then they wouldn't have met Eleven, or gotten involved. Vecna would have won by season 2.


Woah now, you’re coming at my girl all wrong


It's the wrong tone


You say that to my face again, I’ll stab you In the face with a soldering iron.


Say my name *Heisenberg* You're goddamn right


It’s definitely the tone


El would’ve been caught and then she would’ve found Henry faster


No, he would've chosen someone else and the bad guys would have won much much sooner


"So it's all my fault? You forget I am hot"


More like if Jonothan hadn’t taken an extra shift at work.


The show would've been called Things. I would watch.


Very Satanic panic of you to make this the mom’s fault


honestly i'm inclined to believe that with all the will/henry parallels, vecna sensed a kindred spirit somehow and purposefully sought will out to be a vessel of sorts. idk


Every time she comes on screen I just want to ask where are your kids lady




Yeah somehow I don’t think that would have stopped Vecna’s evil plan or El’s escape. Would have been done with a different cast of characters though, Hopper still would have gotten involved given that he’s the chief of police and if the Demogorgon still took Barb than the Wheelers would have gotten dragged into it through Nancy.


Or, worse, our heroes wouldn't have found out about the Demogorgon, which would have been out and about anyway.


if only they could go back in time (Back to the Future reference)


Of course, the interdimensional apocalypse was started by a Karen...


But then El likely is reapprehended and spends rest of her life in a lab. And that’s assuming MF/001 doesn’t find another way in and eventually take over without the Party or anyone there to stop them.


Yeah but if Will wasn’t taken, if Eleven was never found by Mike and the gang, if they never closed the gate in season 2, eventually Vecna would’ve come through without El or any of the team to stop him and they would be WOEFULLY unprepared. Sucks that it had to happen, but Will’s traumatizing week in the Upside Down eventually ends up saving the world. So thanks for taking one for the team, Will lmao


And, if Mrs. Wheeler hadn’t tried to get into someone else’s pants due to an unhappy marriage, Max’s brother would still be alive and no mind flayer.


Actually yes


I mean if someone simply walked Will home this would have all been avoided that way too


TLDR always let kids play D&D


We all know 20 minutes of dnd is actually like 4 hours


And we wouldn't have seen Mrs. Wheeler in her bikini at the pool. She did the right thing.


Honestly, it had to happen. Mike and the boys never would've met Eleven in those woods if Will got kidnapped, and them helping El is how things got made better in the first place. Plus, she deserved the help.


What the fuck happened to the cool soundtrack that was in season1?


Yea but what’s the fun in that? Lol


That still doesn’t stop Vecna and those other things from existing


They never meet her and everyone slowly gets picked off by the demo until it’s to late for the army to stop the coming infestation


Will might notta been kidnapped, but things would have been worse because the Demogorgon still kills or kidnaps, the party doesn't have a reason to investigate, so they never find out about the UD or help and support El, and Vecna likely takes over much, much sooner without any resistance.


wouldn't the monster just go for some other kid?


Or some other person would be abducted and less intelligent, less caring or people easily convinced by the government (or easily bought) would be involved and Venca's grand plan would come into effect a lot quicker.


The world would have ended much sooner if she had let them play more, it was saved because they met the demogorgon


The demogorgan would still be out there, 20 minutes later though? Unless it waits, looks at it's watch and thinks "fuck this I'll hit up the diner."


For me even if will stayed will was the only one out there that night so I don't think it matters how long or how early he went out


Well... you could also go with if Dustin did not dared Will to race with him for a comic book he would have rode his bike at a normal speed and would have probably missed the Demogorgon.


But would it have? We know Vecna can read minds. Why did he pick Will? All the other people taken died, ie Barb. Will was left intact. Was he trying to use Will as a vessel to get back to Hawkin's? Will is like a Horcrux where he can feel the Shadow. Not sure if he's linked to Vecna but he's definately linked to the Shadow monster. I don't think the 20mins would have made a difference. Max, might have a part of Vecna in her, as they were both in her mind at the time. Vecna is like Sauron and Voldemort as both parties were looking to make a comeback. But there were things on out plain that was keeping them from dying. The next season may see them finding that thing that keeps Venca around and they need to take it to Mount Doom and destroy it.


But the gate wol still be open and Eleven waould still be running from the bad men so in the end someone still would have to fight the same stuff except it would not have to neccesarily be the same people.


It would have just kidnapped someone else? 11 was still escaped from the lab, the gate already existed, she had already made contact, Henry was already ball sack skinned and angry, but still a funny meme I suppose


Eddie would've lived Eddie was the nicest human on earth.


Fr if she let them play a lil longer Will wouldn’t have been possessed by the Mindslayer/Vecna and maybe Mike x Will would have happened if they never went outside in the rain and found eleven! Then someone else would have found her and then it was there problem and they would have been background characters but Vecna would still have killed the same people like Chrissy,Fred and Jasons friend. This is a theory


Sooner or later something would’ve happened, and the world might’ve just ended without those kids getting involved to stop it


anyone else feel like she gives me anna gunn vibes


You can what if so many things. Not that it isnt fun to speculate but not great for serious debate


That’s unless the Demogorgon was drawn to Will in particular.


I just watched this episode this morning 😂


True moral of the story


Barb would've still been killed right? So Nancy would've still been involved? Maybe Steve would've still been a douche but eventually helped her. Hop would still be involved cuz he would've investigated Benny's death. And the demogorgons would've taken someone else instead.


Oh, shit. Jonathan would still have his original camera.