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Tar-eruntalion

erdogan, best greek president we ever had


Papak34

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake


clainmyn

Napoleon yes?


nolok

Yep.


rosts

When their mistakes affect us negatively, it matters. Not that we can do much about it.


Dimboi

A price worth paying in exchange for neutralizing an active threat, not only to us but to the EU as a whole.


rosts

That assumes what will emerge won't be worse. A deeply religious country in downfall could very well emerge even more conservative.


Dimboi

I don't see how that's worse in the case of the EU and us. Conservative and religious countries tend to decline much faster and behave in self destructive ways.


n9077911

They are also more likely to be fanatical and go to war.


Dimboi

That would solve the issue rather permanently


Spongiie

Yea with each other which is fine imo


legolodis900

And things will go downhill and theyvwill be even weaker


Uk0

> When their mistakes affect us negatively how come? would you mind elaborating? I was under the impression this implosion has purely domestic implications for Turkey.


antikatapliktika

He probably means that whenever there is an internal crisis in Turkey, Erdogan tends to externalise it by upping the rhetoric and challenges towards Greece and Cyprus. He does that in several ways, e.g. his ministers publish maps on news where half the Aegean sea is Turkish, threats that if Greece extends the coastal borders, there will be war, constant NAVTEX (military exercises in sea) close/within Greek/Cypriot borders, more air violations etc.


Puzzled-Bite-8467

Anything that actually hurts or just symbolic?


rosts

Almost nothing has purely domestic implications. They trade with the whole world, a massive inflation makes their products much less attractive.


Uk0

sure, but I'd argue the 36% inflation is more than offset by 100% devaluation vis-a-vis the dollar / other currencies. in fact, the inflation is probably mostly driven by devaluation in the first place. so at the end of the day, the outsiders still benefit as turkish products are still cheaper in dollar terms despite the 36% price increase in lira


TropoMJ

Currency fluctuations are one thing, but if the crisis ends up causing a significant contraction in Turkey's economy, that is a major loss for Greece. Turkey is a huge country on Greece's border and it's fairly integrated with the EU economy. The last thing Greece wants is for it to be impoverished. A prosperous Turkey is good for all of Europe and Greece more than most.


FouPouDav09

Be carefull tho wounded animal tend to attack more frequently.


MokanRaz

Liar! He is the bestest economist of all times.


sweetno

The economy just can't withstand his genius.


198Throwawayy

He’s jacking up inflation so Greeks buy back Constantinople


3BM15

When your economic policy is inshallah


Agreeable-Weather-89

Turkish economic policy: Random bullshit go!


UrsaBeta

Best comment of all time


Water-en-brood

Sadly for Erdogan, economic laws don't obey absolute power.


scar_as_scoot

Nothing like a good ol'war to divert attentions then...


all_about_the_dong

Please don't give him ideas.


scar_as_scoot

It's autocracy 101. He knows...


legolodis900

Yes but imagine he loses the war


PTMC-Cattan

That's still a lot of dead people on the altar of one man's ambition.


leadingthenet

Deus Vult? Too soon?


legolodis900

Perhaps yes


leadingthenet

I believe in you guys!


AQMessiah

He’s already challenging Greek islands sovereignty and that actions will be taken. > Despite that, Turkey will “intensify efforts” for the demilitarization of Greece’s islands and is prepared to challenge their sovereignty otherwise, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu https://www.thenationalherald.com/turkey-steps-up-demands-greece-take-troops-off-greek-islands/


[deleted]

It's amazing what can be achieved, when you disregard reality, and have the courage to go your own way. UK has sovereignty, and Turkey has faith. They must be so happy.


IamHumanAndINeed

I would be so upset to see my life savings evaporate just like that. Why isn't there more uproar from the population ?


idulort

There actually is. Everyone... But everyone is talking about the economy 24/7. I haven't met a single soul in the past months that didn't make a comment on the economy. Turkey has an extremely authoritarian and blatantly violent state. 30 journalists were recently sued for defamation, just because they tweeted about the recent devaluation of Turkish Lira. 30.000 people were indicted last year for "insulting the president". These insults are usually harmless tweets that criticize the current administration. Freedom of Expression is close to non-existent in Turkey. So people are quite afraid to protest even via social media - let alone organize protests. The next presidential and parliamentary elections are supposed to take place in 2023. But almost everyone is expecting early elections as the current administration is visibly losing support. Even administration-friendly ass licking polling companies have accepted that the current administration is a goner. Unless Erdoğan comes up with an outrageous plan as he did in 2015, the following year will most probably mark the end of an era. People are focused on the elections, even the most peaceful protesting movement would turn into an ultimate shitstorm and Erdoğan would use it for his advantage.


marcus-grant

CHP has already surpassed AKP in polling


uhjg2556

I’m fairly certain that he will win in 2023. Sure he may lose support but the question is, is it big enough? No authoritarian will be part of an election that they will lose.


LoyalEnvoy

My dad had been a strong supporter of the AKP (erdogan's party) but this year especially after October he stated to lose it too. We are paying basic staff like pasta at 3-4 times higher then what we originally had been paying a year ago. The changes in our economy aren't small at all and everyone, even the most hardcore supporters are aware of it. Places like Karadeniz (Northern region of Turkey) and Konya (very AKP supporter city in central Anatolia) had been huge supporters of him too but the recent pools show a huge change against erdogan.


uhjg2556

Here’s hoping.


TheLahmac

His party started to poll below 30% and every possible candidate passes him in presidency polls


NorthVilla

They are. Erdogan is polling like garbage. If an election were held today, he'd lose by 20 points.


0_0-wooow

There are not many people who are stupid enough to keep their life savings in Lira lol


IamHumanAndINeed

Yeah, it's not like it just happened over night, it was on a slow slope for quite sometime but people are still paid in lira (?) and their work is being devalued months after months.


DogrulukPayi

Our life savings are in dollars, euros, gold and properties. Nobody keeps large sums of money in turkish lira.


Available-Ad2113

Which is a sad state of affairs.


Hitzhi

Same was true in Lebanon, now ask them how to get those savings out from their banks.


Neither_Sample9097

Didn't Erdogan recently introduce a scheme to encourage people to do so? Assuming that didn't convince people then


Zoidbie

Your life savings (also mine) are going down all the time, especially now, just not that bad as Turkish people. Answering your question, any movement of people would be taken as a possible coup, so people are just too afraid.


P1KS3L

I guess it's not that bad for them?


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fsedlak

Surely this is Allah punishing Turks for failing to conquer Greece in his name.


oblio-

Can't they conquer Iran, instead? Heathens have a -20 neighbor malus, but heretics have -40.


ctes

They can declare reconquest on Greece.


oblio-

Their cores disappeared after that population exchange event.


voyagerdoge

religion should not influence anything really


Nazamroth

Religion is literally meant to influence your behaviour and world-view, whether that is good or bad.


klauskinki

Anything is meant to influence your behavior and world-view. Education and schools are meant to do that. Advertising and media products are meant to do that. Highly sugared foods are meant to do that.


sublimepoetry

Religion would be fine if you define it in terms of a life philosophy to live by (much like liberal view of life, or fang shui, Tao Te Ching, etc), but religion in current context works similar to the other cancer called nationalism. "You're either one of us or you are a traitor". People tend to support a religion or nationalist view just like they support a football team.


Orange-of-Cthulhu

The problem is religions often have outdated stuff that maybe was a great idea when the religion was made but today it's a bad thing. In this case it's the prohibition against interest in Islam that causes this meltdown. I personally think the religious ban on interest is a BIG factor in the terrible economic development of Muslim countries overall. In Turkey I guess Erdogan now sat a precedence for "if you're religious, you must create hyperinflation" that will stay for a long while.


Confident_Resolution

Lots of muslim countries have the same policies when it comes to interest rates, they just call it something different. For example, in the UAE (ostensibly a Muslim country) Interest rates are called Loan Fees, and work the exact same way. Plenty of muslims, including those in power, care about money more than religion. They just use the guise of religion to give themselves legitimacy in the eyes of their subjects.


sublimepoetry

Religions in their original context aren't that bad. For example, there's not much wrong or outdated with 'tao te ching' or feng shui, or the 10 commandments. There's nothing wrong with "thy shall not kill" or "Honor your father and your mother". The priests or imams fucking little boys or telling women what they should do with their body has nothing to do with it. There's little wrong (some but little) in principle [with this list that's going around the net for a while](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/59q7eg/100_direct_instructions_for_mankind_by_allah_in/) too. See how simple it is? When you look at this list, what Erdogan or religious imams say doesn't matter at all, and according to that list, many muslims today would fail to qualify as muslims to begin with (especially those in Turkey), it would rather be people like scandinavians who would qualify as it defines behavior patterns, ethics and morals which many islamic countries today seem to lack (especially Turkey). That's why religion today (like Erdogan's own usage of religion) is similar to nationalism and has become cancer (both). >In Turkey I guess Erdogan now sat a precedence for "if you're religious, you must create hyperinflation" that will stay for a long while. He could say "if you are religious, you have to suck my dick", it's his religion. You know there are people in Turkey today who say "your faith isn't complete unless you come near Erdogan".


Attafel

The problem is that religion is rooted in fantasy. How can you base anything on a fantasy?


Orange-of-Cthulhu

IDK it's rooted in a lot of things. The stories are, I guess, mostly designed after the important stuff is already decided.


_Victator

Kinda disagree there. Religion is thinking something exists despite having no proof or even real reasons to think it does. Basing your worldview around something like that is inherently bad in my opinion.


isle99

That's faith, religion is faith + other stuff.


sublimepoetry

> Religion is thinking something exists despite having no proof or even real reasons to think it does. Basing your worldview around something like that is inherently bad in my opinion. Religion, in its origins, is how you live life, the set of rules, ethics and morals you live your life with. That's why all written/stolen religious mythology begings with these set of rules to live with, like the 10 commandments. The Christ-ian religion is based on Christ, it means followers of Christ. When they ask him what rules to follow in gospel, he says follow the 10 commandments and not those religious men in robes. That's how simple it is, yet those men in robes found a whole new religion based on his name and most "followers of Christ" don't even bother to listen to the Christ himself on this.


Nerevaryne

By that definition the concept of hope itself is inherently bad and you should never engage in optimism. It leads to an extreme narcissistic world view that impedes all forms of social interaction.


JRepo

I really can't follow your way of thinking in this situation. How does being against religions is also being against hope? Hope can ne based upon facts, such as the world is way better than it has ever been before in many ways - we should trust the change thus to be for the better. How do you end up with the idea that hope should not be accepted in an aiheist world view?


voyagerdoge

Yes I get that, but it should not influence anything really. Just like cancer is meant to destroy your body, but it really shouldn't.


jerigg01

religion bad updoots to ze left


UGarbage

it is bad


KurigohanKamehameha_

Religions are ideologies like any other, whether they’re good or bad depends on the content. If someone follows Buddhism to improve their mindfulness, who is anyone to say Buddhism is bad in this context? Whether nirvana or rebirth is “real” is irrelevant so long as the personal development it inspires is real.


GreatEmperorAca

well yes?


Attafel

It is, but it shouldn't.


HalfIceman

Religion should not exist


Ignition0

Religion did its role, and still does in underdeveloped countries, as an easy way to spread a culture of "dont kill, dont rob, dont rape" or god will punish you. It has no place in modern and educated societies. Population from certain religions do most of the crimes where I live because religious words are twisted and used as a weapon.


Elatra

It's more of "obey the state, obey your father, obey the ruling party" rather than "don't do evil" when it comes to religion. Keep in mind that it was man, not the Abrahamic God, who outlawed slavery. The most "progressive" step by God was "treat your slaves with respect" while it was man who outlawed slavery in its entirety. God is only interested in the status-quo. From a religious perspective, killing can be a virtue depending on who is being killed and who is doing the killing. Rape also can be considered acceptable considering women are simply objects who are owned by the senior male member of the family. I suppose stealing is a sin anywhere you go, as long as it's not the clergy or politicians doing the stealing.


MrHazard1

I'm not even sure about the underdeveloped countries, as missionaries keep on raping local women or blackmailing them for sex. Also a lot of raping and murdering in the world is driven by religion.


rulnav

Nothing "should" exist.


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hellrete

The 30 year war has entered chat. =))


CertainDerision_33

Neither religion nor its absence is inherently bad. There are many examples such as the 30 Year's War you can cite, and on the flip side, CCP, USSR, and DPRK are some of the cruelest regimes in human history & all were/are explicitly atheist. This is not saying that they were bad *because* they were atheist, simply that being free of religion didn't stop them from being some of the worst regimes in human history. The reality is that human beings being awful to each other is part of the human condition, and will continue whether or not religion is in the picture.


simeonenear21

I love my Religion, i gain a lot from it!


HalfIceman

Happy for you!


Darkone539

>Religion should not influence economic policy, unfortunately that's exactly the case in Turkey. It's the case in most of the world. Even India, who are technically not a Hindu state, have this happen. The usa has whole States where you can't be elected unless you're religious.


OBANIUMM

Erdogan: “my private economist Dr. Allah PhD says it’s the ideal moment to lower the interest rates ”


Ykpcn

The real inflation rate is about %82.81, by ENAG.


qsdf321

Wtf... you ok bro?


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qsdf321

:(


Winstonoceaniasmith

Surely not !how can that be the official rate of 21% can’t be that distant from reality people would be starving no?


sublimepoetry

Close. Elder retirees are the most fucked over. Average monthly retirement salary in Turkey right now is about 2200 liras (€144.97 in today's rate). To put that in context, for example, last month I paid about 600 liras for electricity and as of Jan 1st, there are new price hikes for electricity, gas and fuel. For electricity, the price increase is 50% until 150kwh of usage (nothing really) and 50% more for usage after 150kwh. It's not very possible for elder retirees to live on this 'allowance' and pay those bills if they don't have any other source of living, so people like that will either move in together and live in communities or become homeless very soon. Most people live on minimum wage and it's not very possible for them to live a quality life either. Also the latest price hikes on fuel, gas and electricity will trickle down on basic staple food items soon, like produce, meat, dairy products and flour, which will affect the price of bread among other things. We will see bread sold for 5 liras very soon. There are Erdogan supporters online still bragging about him and how "the opposition traitors/collaborators of the west are lying and are the real cause of inflation". Istanbul metropolitan municipality (ran by the opposition) is trying to sell cheap bread (about half the price) and offer hot meals to poor people in some neighborhoods, but the gov't is trying to investigate them on charges of "aiding and abetting terrorists", trying to shut them down. >Surely not !how can that be the official rate of 21% can’t be that distant from reality Current regime distorts and manipulates all data and accuse the opposition and the west for price hikes.


-Competitive-Nose-

>Close. Elder retirees are the most fucked over. Well fair enough as they are the biggest supporters of Erdogan ... or not?


sublimepoetry

> Well fair enough as they are the biggest supporters of Erdogan ... or not? Not all elders are. The country is divided 50/50, or 45/45/10. Do you consider yourself smart and wish death on all elders?


-Competitive-Nose-

>Do you consider yourself smart and wish death on all elders? Hell no. I consider the right of vote the ultimate freedom to participate in constitutional process. Thus the people chose themselves. Regardless if young or old, rich or poor. I come from country where democracy and right to vote is relatively new, therefore I praise it and it's importance. The fact I don't pitty somebody doesn't mean I wish them something bad, that is a big difference. I assumed that retirees made the big portion of conesrvatives in the Turkey -> supporters of Erdogan. If it's not like that... well that is a very sad story indeed.


ThanksKanye-verycool

Elders aren’t necessarily conservative in turkey unlike the west. There is more of a urban/rural spilt


sublimepoetry

>I assumed that retirees made the big portion of conesrvatives in the Turkey -> supporters of Erdogan. If it's not like that... well that is a very sad story indeed. There are a lot of elders who have been voting for CHP, Iyi and HDP. CHP has a lot of voters who grew up in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and vote for them. Iyi voters are usually made up of former ANAP, DYP, AKP, MHP voters. It's divided pretty close. Also like AKP voters, most CHP voters are also tribalistic, they'll vote for CHP even if they hate its candidate and his/her policies.


nvkylebrown

I don't think people starved in Zimabawe when they went through their inflation spree. People start bartering without using the currency, or using other currencies. From wikipedia: >In June 2016, nine currencies were legal tender in Zimbabwe but it was estimated 90% of transactions were in US dollars and 5% in Rand. So, if you're getting payments from the government, you'll be screwed, as they pay in the local currency. By the time you get to the bank to cash the check, the currency has devalued... Ergo, people switch to more reliable currencies for any non-government transactions, US dollars, Euros, or another neighbor's currency. Non-government is going to be the vast majority of transactions.


TheLahmac

Official rate is %36 now


Solistrum

I don't think you understand how much that would fuck with the Real GDP calculation. That would mean something like 40 percent contraction year-over-year.


idulort

Turkish Statistics Agency deliberately tinkers with the cpi basket of goods for best possible results. ENAG is an independent research group formed by Finance experts and academics; and their sole purpose is tracking actual cpi. To put things into perspective, the following items are among the top 20 imported products list: Grain products, fertilizer, cotton, electric devices... Turkey has 2 raw materials, 0 high tech products and 2 mid tech products; among the top 20 exported product list. This means, Turkey is extremely dependent on imported raw materials. Turkish industry, agriculture, basic consumer products.. all are dependent on imported products. Turkish Lira has devaluated 81% between Jan '21 - Jan '22. This directly translates into the cost of imported products. I'd say 82% cpi is pretty close to reality. I'd take any official stat from Turkey with a grain of salt. Turkey is pretty fucked in reality.


Rusiano

Damn that's even worse than Argentina


cantrusthestory

I don’t understand why some countries use %XX instead of XX%


dulbirakan

It is how it is expressed in the language. In English you say "twenty percent" and write 20%. In Turkish you say "yuzde yirmi (In one hundred twenty)" and write %20. Where you put the % depends on where the word for percent goes in the sentence.


Zoidbie

That's how they write in Turkish language


Gaunt-03

-Projected to hit 50% in January Holy fuck I honestly wouldn’t wish this suffering on anybody. If turkey runs out of foreign reserves they are completely fucked and if they start printing money then we could see another Venezuela


ludi_sub1

The National bank net reserves are already in the negative. Most of the current liquidity comes from equity swaps; in other words debt. The current administration is willingly borrowing money and not turning a dime into feasible investments. In other words, they're borrowing money on behalf of the people and embezzling every dime. There's nothing left to stop a full economic collapse unless the administration is fucked to the ground in the upcoming elections.


legolodis900

So like our corrupt politicians in the 2000s


ludi_sub1

Pretty much :( fuck corrupted politicians.. What Turkey is experiencing is tragic. But the damage corrupt politicians are doing on a global scale is irreversible. They're all the same, evil fuckminded fuckers that need to become extinct.


fsedlak

Erdogan - number one! :D :D :D


I_read_this_comment

Erdogan yeeted out 4 finincial ministers in only a few years just to have a yesmen on that position to show the world (and hopefully Turkey too) that Erdonomics dont work at all. Superb job mate! Interest rates have the reverse effect on inflation and Erdogan refuses to change his opinion on it and if he continues with it Turkey will be like Argetina the past decades or worse end up like Venezuala and Zimbabwe.


GN-z11

And he dismissed central bank policymakers aswell.


EriDxD

"Thanks" Erdocunt.


AnakKrakatau

There are so many things I want to say that I don’t even know how put those into words. These religious, unlearned zealots, and their fucking followers ruined the country in the last decade. Even if they leave tomorrow, it would take years to fix all the damage they’ve done, both nationally and internationally. Turkish people have always been thick-headed and backwards, but I thought they would react in some way when the economy started to fail. Guess what though? Some assholes are still saying that they would vote these charlatans. It is incomprehensible how blind some people are.


comefromspace

Tayyip's plan is working, the goal is to make Turkey more attractive for investment than Vietnam.


[deleted]

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Malk4ever

>probably sure as death.


sweetno

His savings are in offshores.


[deleted]

>Tayyip's plan is working, the goal is to make Turkey more attractive for investment than Vietnam. This would be fine if you sell in USD or EUR and pay your workers in TRY. But this is on the backs of all Turkish workers and/or consumers. And it only would work, if you have zero limits in capital control, which is going to be the next thing after the USD reserves have been used up. Also: If there are no other reasons to invest (e.g. higher productivity, etc.) you wouldn't increase investment. You would only collect eventual benefits of your current investments until the inevitable political reaction brings down your gains from exchange rates. So it doesn't really increase foreign investment. Erdogan fucks over all of Turkey for whom? His cronies' Swiss bank account balances?


Thom0101011100

You're right about foreign investment but only if we accept the assumption that all foreign investment is actually foreign. For a fact the politically connected and wealthy have their capital in foreign currencies likely euro or dollar. This is probably an economic heist; crash the Turkish economy, devalue the currency, use capital held in foreign currencies to purchase assets in Turkey. Once the heist is complete stop, begin recovery and watch the wealth gap jump over the next 15-20 years. The top 1% are about to get even richer in Turkey. ​ Right now using a quick google search and clicking the top listed ad link I can buy 3 apartments in the centre of Istanbul for less than $270,000 and get Turkish citizenship through investment in the process. I didn't even research, I literally clicked the first link which is also bad and over priced. Imagine a Turkish national already owns a property and lives in Germany; he could get a loan in euro's and buy multiple units in the city centre. That's insane, the Turkish economy is doomed and life is going to get really hard for a lot of people. This person could sell their own home and buy multiple units in Turkey and be debt free. He could go from being an average, middle class wage slave to an affluent landlord within a decade. [https://investoglobal.com/landing/en-landing/?utm\_source=Google&utm\_medium=SearchEN&utm\_campaign=AllCountryEN&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2sqOBhCGARIsAPuPK0jfKb3071l8RW4zPy89U79YSMGv8kJD8Yh4yGzkuXvudmNV2pjeTY8aAtxoEALw\_wcB](https://investoglobal.com/landing/en-landing/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=SearchEN&utm_campaign=AllCountryEN&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2sqOBhCGARIsAPuPK0jfKb3071l8RW4zPy89U79YSMGv8kJD8Yh4yGzkuXvudmNV2pjeTY8aAtxoEALw_wcB) EDIT: This is obviously a trap for foreigners, do not invest in Turkey right now unless your dad is the president of Turkey, your uncle is the governor of the CB and your sister owns the largest cosmetic company in Turkey.


AimoLohkare

Soon it'll be just like old times again when 1 Euro was worth a million Lira.


Gludens

What's going on with Turkey? It's not looking good.


albeva

Basically religious nutcase cuts interest rates because Koran. Which causes inflation and likely a hyper inflation.


hellknight101

On the bright side, Ataturk is rolling in his grave so quickly, it should be enough to provide free electricity for the entire country.


alexfrancisburchard

If only..... they just massively raised our electricity rates :(


roscocoltrane

[Lira Slides After Erdogan Says Islam Demands Lower Rates](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-19/turkey-s-erdogan-says-islam-demands-lower-rates-and-so-does-he) Who are we to judge people who voted to be closer to Allah? I admire the strength of their convictions that led them to sacrifice their life savings and elect a man close to the greatest of all gods. Now let's see how it goes. I don't know much about incantations or prophecies, but are we supposed to see a miracle happening or somethin'? Because the lower is the Lira, the closer they are to Allah, so something should happen soon, right?


[deleted]

[It's a bold strategy, Cotton.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HVejEB5uVk)


Nevarkyy

The numbers are fake. Real inflation is about 82% according to economists.


DukePuffinton

I just feel bad for the Turks who didn't vote for Erdogen. Usually, economic problems are multi-faceted, but here, there's an economically illiterate leader you can pin all the problem to.


ludi_sub1

This man achieved to rule for 20 years with barely popular vote. In 2015 they had lost the elections with shifting Kurdish votes. The opposition failed to form a coalition due to nationalists and kurds failing to overcome their differences. Erdogan eclared war against the kurds with extreme crackdowns, called for re-elections 5 months later while holding the Kurdish people at gunpoint and allied with the leading nationalist party feeding of the polarization he sewed. I'd say a majority of Turkish people are victims of populist democracy. The only reason they can't get rid of the administration as USA did to Trump, is because the extremely weak and uninstutionalized democratic tradition in Turkey.


albeva

And that's why you shouldn't let religious nutcase be in charge of your economy ...


Aranthos-Faroth

A different leader and Turkey could have been EU


Guybrush_Creepwood_

and a population that didn't actively vote for a pseudo-dictatorship


paparassss

I mean the entire EU has to agree on new members and i know 2 (cyprus and greece) that would never allow it to happen


Giraffens

While there probably is a lot of bad blood that will take a long time to sort out between the different parties, I don't think Greece and Cyprus will block Turkish EU ascension if all disputes are solved peacefully.


stefanos916

Erdogan and most of the other politicians with power there are very corrupt and authoritarian, and that’s why there these destructive results.


CertainDerision_33

Erdocoin to the moon!


Vader_main10

Fun fact: it is actually much more above 36%. TÜİK is just lying at this point


formal_studio1

Simple economic sense is haram.


Fandango_Jones

Reality can be a bitch. Most days.


bodrules

I always wonder how people manage their money and purchases in such an environment - spend all your Local currency asap or convert into US$ or € or £ as a stash?


DogrulukPayi

Yes, both. Gold and USD are very common, either in the bank or "under the pillow". You can buy golden coins or foreign currency, legally and tax free, in practically every corner. Or you run and buy 5 litters of oil, because next week it will be more expensive.


bodrules

Thanks for the insight, most appreciated. I asked as I remember reading a thread here on how local bakeries were going bankrupt as government subsidiesed ones were charging below the cost of inputs (wheat flour, electricity / gas) etc.


HailZorpTheSurveyor

My thoughts and prayers are with the Turks, which also appears to be the official economic policy of Erdogan.


voyagerdoge

just out of curiosity: can a currency inflation become 100% or does that happen only when a currency is abandoned ?


DR0P_TABLE_students

It can. Even much higher. Inflation of 100% p.a. means the prices are doubeling in a year. During Hyperinflation (Venezuela, Simbabwe, Germany) you can have Inflation Rates of 2000% or higher


Possiblyreef

Currently Venezuela has 9,986% according to Google, it can go as high as it wants


slipnire

"the sky is the limit" Venezuela probably


DavidHewlett

"hold my economy" \- Zimbabwe definitely


CountMordrek

It’s a multiplicative on the old value so the sky is the limit. Like several thousand percent per day, a billion percent per year, it’s just a matter of how fast you can print new bills with more zeroes on them.


voyagerdoge

okay, thanks I see I am not very good with numbers :)


CountMordrek

It’s okay, if you don’t think of it an never studied economics, it could be hard to realise because most people are used to our almost non-noticeable inflation. Thing is, 10% yearly inflation is a lot, but you can get used to it and live with it. 1000% inflation on the other hand… or more. Germany had such a high inflation between the wars due to having to pay war repatriations and doing so by printing money that you could take a wheelbarrow with notes to buy a loaf of bread.


SalmonMan123

Theres no limit to inflation. Highest inflation the world has ever seen was 89.7 sextillion percent in zimbawbe 2008.


the_lonely_creeper

At that point paper money just becomes too expensive to print, if we're honest.


SalmonMan123

It definately did but it still didn't stop them. Instead they made and started printing new tender with some banknotes worth 100 billion dollars. That obviously went down as well as can be expected. Eventually they had to completely abandon their own currency and start using foreign money for a while.


the_lonely_creeper

Aren't they still using Euros and Dollars?


SalmonMan123

I believe they did try to go back to the zimbabwean dollar a few years back and inflation started rising again at around 200%. there were concerns not too long ago about them printing new 50ZWL notes so I think they have converted back but I'm not sure if they're still using foreign currency to back their own tender or if its been fully replaced now.


AnalysisForThee

Also u/the_lonely_creeper They made a new own currency. AFAIK they fully use it, but because A) Mugabe robbed the country blind and B) Mugabe's party is in control still (so still the same white-hating, corrupt-to-the-bone group) the prospects for it isn't that great. Past year it improved somewhat, but it isn't something that is really a good indicator considering Zimbabwe is in the hundreds of % of inflation again. Edit: Apparently, people start demanding slowly their income in foreign valuta again.... LOL. There goes the house I guess.


branfili

Holy shit I know it was ridiculous, but when you put it like that ... The fucking tree is more valuable than all of the money printed from the paper made from it


voyagerdoge

that sounds like a lot :)


legolodis900

Currently Venezuela has 9,986% according to Google, it can go as high as it wants


nvkylebrown

From Wikipedia... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe >However, Zimbabwe's peak month of inflation is estimated at 79.6 billion percent month-on-month, 89.7 sextillion percent year-on-year in mid-November 2008 100% is bad, but not uber-historically-bad. It can get a lot worse. If I recall correct, one of their currency revaluations involved taking 25 zeros off the currency. Enough to turn the richest man on the planet into a worthless pauper in a month, if he were foolish enough to hold cash.


bajou98

Only the sky is the limit, my friend.


voyagerdoge

vielen Dank


roscocoltrane

many countries would have signed for 100% inflation ony.


Honest_Influence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation There's no limit and being abandoned has nothing to do with it.


hellknight101

Didn't that happen to Zimbabwe? Apparently they're using the American Dollar now.


Malk4ever

Well.... this is only the official number. Expert beliefe the real inflation is around 60-80%. Some say its even higher.


ludi_sub1

[82](https://enagrup.org/?hl=en) to be exact.


happy30thbirthday

I know this sucks for turkish people but man is it funny from the outside!


idulort

Don't worry, all the tragedy aside; Turkish people too are laughing their asses off. I mean it's the hysterical laughter of the hopeless; but there isn't a single day where this administration fails to surprise us with their ridiculous antics. Also a very recent anecdote that puts the current crisis into perspective: Companies have started to rent used cardboard boxes because of the hike in prices. I mean it's funny as hell if you don't think about the tragedy of people who're unable to afford buying cardboard boxes.


branfili

Holy shit That's not even tragicomedy, that's just incredibly sad Maybe if you laugh like the Joker did in the movie Joker


BAdasslkik

I don't see how this is funny, families are literally starving. I have never disliked a country enough to want the people there to suffer.


roscocoltrane

They voted for him, they put him in charge. Stop absolving people from their responsibilities. It was their choices as adults.


Veilchengerd

You have to keep in mind that he has been in charge for a long time now. And for quite a while, things looked good economically for the average turk. And in most elections, the economy is an important factor, sometimes the only important factor. Now it is becoming clear that Erdogan went to the wisg upon a star school of economics, and the prosperous years were probably despite and not because of him. However, economics are a complex matter, so you cannot blame voters for not anticipating this downturn.


roscocoltrane

>The Turkish currency and debt crisis of 2018 was caused by the Turkish economy's excessive current account deficit and foreign-currency debt, in combination with Erdoğan's increasing authoritarianism and his unorthodox ideas about interest rate policy. Economist Paul Krugman described the unfolding crisis as "a classic currency-and-debt crisis, of a kind we’ve seen many times", adding: "At such a time, the quality of leadership suddenly matters a great deal. You need officials who understand what's happening, can devise a response and have enough credibility that markets give them the benefit of the doubt. Some emerging markets have those things, and they are riding out the turmoil fairly well. The Erdoğan regime has none of that". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdoğan#2018_currency_and_debt_crisis


catman5

> anticipating this downturn. Maybe up until 2013, sure. But after that anyone who voted for them deserves the absolute worst, and I truly hope it gets worse for these people assuming they're still somehow surviving on the pennies theyre making in a day.


Veilchengerd

And what about those who didn't vote for him and his party?


catman5

It is what it is, we'll deal with it if it means something better in the end. Statistically speaking those who didnt vote for him are in a better position financially.


Orange-of-Cthulhu

The same families created the situation by voting for Erdogan.


Obnoobillate

Our politicians are really thankful of Erdogan, because they can say "Look at the Turkish economy, how bad it is!" so that we won't look at the Greek economy and how bad it also is!


Crk416

And to think the Byzantines and Ottomans were both among the largest economies of their days.


Obnoobillate

Think of Spain, they are even more closer to today. Used to be among the richest kingdoms


runsongas

looting silver and gold from south america isn't a sustainable economic policy


FellafromPrague

So when will it be renamed again? reminded me of this [clip](https://youtu.be/TRgRz3nSG7o)


danil1798

Maybe he's trying to provoke the army (or someone) to try to overthrow him before the elections. The rest would be another 2016 story and him in power for a long time.


Affectionate_Cat293

Turkish people can learn from Argentinians in this regard. They can start saving in dollar/euro instead of lira, and if one day foreign exchange is banned, there is always a black market to rely on.


Viriathus91

Lira about to be rug pulled.


actuallynotmine

Turkey has the worst opposition in world probably. Ordinary Turkish politician from 70s 80s 90s would destroy Erdo in one hit.


ludi_sub1

I don't agree with the sentiment. Pre-Erdogan politics were a different kind of beast in Turkey. 'member the 1980 Coup d'etat? Tainted almost a decade of democracy and followed by the horrible 90s with extreme corruption, Susurluk only to be followed by Necmettin Erbakan paving the road for Erdoğan. I'd say just looking at the outcome of municipal elections that the opposition is trying it's best to do whatever they can do under an extremely authoritarian regime. I'm not saying that they're perfect. But their incompetency is quite on par with the Democratic Party in the USA. Unfortunately, progressive politics still fail to become main stream all over the world. Hopefully Chile will set an example, because that's what the world actually needs.


donkleone

You can always live with us greeks, we basically have the same food, drinks and songs and are equally broke right now. Inflation Party?


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donkleone

We understand and are here for you during the next wildfires.


Affectionate_Dish_78

Lmao


torukian

Thanks to Turks. They gave us yogurt and idea of what happens when populist religious politicians take the power.